S5 Ep7 If You Don't Have an Audience You Don't Have a Movie

During our time at this year's Christian Worldview Film Festival, we sat down with Doug Weiss, Director of Media Platforms for Christian Cinema and Dove.org and picked his brain about the ever-changing landscape of video distribution and why it's imperative for content creators to identify their audience before a single frame of video is shot. Doug also provides parents with resources to help them make educated decisions about their entertainment. 

The inRoads podcast is a production of Appian Media, a non-profit video production company dedicated to using compelling media to re-engage people with the Bible. Learn more and support the mission at https://appianmedia.org

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We are at the Christian Worldview Film Festival, and we had a great conversation with Doug Weiss He's the Director of Media Platforms for Christian Cinema, an On Demand digital streaming service for Christian Media and Dove.org, a movie review site. We sat down with Doug to talk about the changing landscape and film and video distribution. It's a conversation you're not going to want to miss. Today, on inroads. Welcome to inRoads, where we share real world examples of digital evangelism and provide tips on how you can use today's technology to spread the gospel. Learn more about us and watch our free video series at appianmedia.org. Appian Media is currently fundraising for our next documentary series“Out of Egypt. The project will take an extraordinary journey through Egypt and Jordan as we look at one of the possible routes of the exodus. We will have a lot more on “Out of Egypt” coming up later in the show. This was one of these interviews where we met Doug. You knew Doug previously, right? You exchanged emails with him. But he was in our trial and triumph screening here at the Christian Worldview Film Festival and we were talking to him afterwards and I was like, and this is a guy we need to get on the podcast. Well, and look, yeah, I've known Doug for years. He's been involved with Appian Media where we have our our content has been on Christian cinema for I think since “Searching for a King” and then, you know, since then. So they've got, they've got all of our content have all of our. Yeah. And normally when I'm talking to Doug, it's either I've had a good zoom calls with him, but then I also normally see him in as a small icon on the emails that we exchange. And so when I saw him in real life, I think we both had that kind of. Are you Doug Craig? Yes, yes. Okay. Yes. We know each other and yeah, we went to lunch and then we said, Look, we've got to get you on the podcast. This is an element of film production. We don't talk about much. It is. And truthfully, it's not one we think about as often as we should. Well, and if you talk to Doug and we did talk to Doug, he says that why make films? If you're not going to think about who's going to watch them and. Right. And that's really true. But I'll tell you what. And we were at we were at a breakfast this morning where the question was asked about how do we get our films distributed in the panel. They weren't completely speechless, but there was a lot more. I don't know. It kind of varies. You know, a lot of people are asking this question all the way from the top to the bottom about how to do this. And to be fair to these people, ten years ago, the answer was true across the board. Yeah, if you want to make it big, it's going to go to theaters and it's going to have a great home video run. Right. You know, and if you can do both of those really well, you've got a solid film while now it's a little bit more complicated. It's a lot of bit more complex. And Doug really dives into that in our conversation with him. Yeah, and I'm excited to share that with you guys. I'm just excited that that we can kind of help people appreciate more. It's more than just shooting the film. You and I get this we go on a trip and we come back. We're exhausted. After the week of recovering from the jet lag, people are like, When is it going to be done? And it's like, there is so much more to it than that. There's the post-production, but there's also a lot to go into making it available to the viewers and people like Doug are making it happen. So we're going to talk with him about that today. So we're here today with Doug Weiss from Christian Cinema. We're thrilled to have you, Doug. We've been connected with each other for years now. Yes, but is this the first time we've seen each other? Yes. Face to face in in person. Yeah. So for for our listeners, could you describe a little bit about what you do with Christian cinema and and just kind of your, your motivation behind what you do? Yeah. So I manage the kind of day in and day out for Christian cinema. So given a little overview of Christian cinema, it's a, it's a transactional video on demand platforms. So what happens is somebody will come to Christian cinema and they will rent or buy a movie and so on. Christian cinema, we have Christian movies and family friendly films, and so what I do is I work with a lot of filmmakers and distributors kind of like yourselves and add, you know, adding content to the platform. And so filmmakers will have like one film distributors will have multiple films. So it just varies. And so they add those films, you know, to, you know, to our library. And then we do a lot of just marketing and communications out to our, you know, customers who are connected with us on Christian cinema to learn about the films. And so, you know, we have films on there that are new, just came out to films, you know, that are older. And so that's what I do is just manage the platform and manage the relationships and a lot of the communications. And these are these are films of all kinds. So Appian Media stuff is on there, which is more documentary, but you've got feature films, you've got episodic things which I really appreciate about your platform. And I don't remember the year that we started, but it was probably within the first two or three years of Appian. So all of our content thus far is, is available on your platform, which we so appreciate because like you said, a big thing about what you do is you send out emails, you let people know about new content that's coming out. So we are here right now. This podcast is being recorded at the 2020 Christian Worldview Film Festival, and so you've been here all week for their special guild sessions. Can you kind of describe what you've been doing the last few days and and why you think it's important to be doing that? Yes. So the Guild is like the first half of the festival. And so people come here who are like brand new filmmakers or have, you know, been around, you know, for a while and they come in, learn from, you know, professionals about, you know, producing, directing, acting, distribution, you know, all sorts of things, color editing. It varies. And so you have the just a variety of workshops over a three day period that they can, you know, choose from and so they have different tracks that you can go down. And so they have people come that, you know, teach the workshop workshops. And then there's are also panel discussions. And then what. Were some of your workshops? Yeah, so I did a workshop on distribution and then also I was part of a panel discussion like on marketing. But what's incredible is, you know, in, in, in addition to all those workshops, they have a just the time of like teaching. And so they have different teachers that are in pastors that will, you know, share from the word of God and, you know, kind of share their personal stories as well. And so it's very, very inspirational. And then also a time, you know, of like worship. Yeah. As well. So and it's been good for us. Stu and I were able to arrive here a bit earlier Wednesday afternoon, so technically the guild was over. Yeah, but they had a great session last night. Stephen Kendrick kind of spearheaded that. I find just rubbing elbows with other creatives being reminded that there are other people out there in all facets of this industry. Some of them are writers, some are directors or actors or distributors, but we're all kind of encouraging each other and saying, Come on, we can do this, we can do this well, we can do this with excellence. And I find that really fascinating. Why why is it important for you personally to lead workshops like this to to help this next generation? Yeah. So what I've found is there's a lot of filmmakers that I talked to, you know, day in and day out that don't understand distribution. Like they know how to make a movie, but they don't know, like, okay, you know, how do we get an audience? And that's the most important thing, right? It's like we've made this thing now. What do we. Do with it? Have to watch it. That's right. And so I think just, you know, here educating like filmmakers about the process of distribution and marketing. So they understand that. So they can take that into consideration because like when you go to, you know, raise money for a budget, you know, to produce your content a lot of times like they don't raise, you know, think about raising money for distribution and marketing, right? And so that's important to know. Like, oh, hey, I need to raise money for that as well. What was the statistic they gave at? There was like a networking breakfast this morning and they said, after you've got the film in the can. And so for those who don't know, that means after you've got the film shot. Yeah. You're less than 50% of the way done. Yeah, that's right. You know. So you've still got post-production and distribution and marketing. Yeah. There's a whole lot more that needs to happen after the cameras have cut. Yeah. And so talk to me a little bit about you've been doing this for for many years. Yeah. Where do you see how do you see distribution changing does it certainly is. Yeah. Is that is that exciting to you? Is that worrisome to you? What kind of changes are you? Yeah, no, that's exciting because we've seen like, for example, we've seen the platform of Christian cinema continue to grow because it is video on demand. So because of COVID less people, you know, you know, we're not going to the theaters. So that was kind of quiet for a while. It's kind of coming back, but it's still it's still not the same as it was. And who knows if it will, you know, ever be. I mean, it's you just we just don't know. And so more people and because of the revolution of streaming platforms and the way people consume content, you know, and YouTube, people want to access stuff any time in anywhere. And so so we've seen that just those platforms have become more, you know, not necessary, but more in demand. And so before, you know, people would go to the theaters and then after that, they maybe watch it on DVD before streaming. But now it's like, okay, they may just wait till film comes out on streaming and watch it. So that's how I've, you know, really seen it like change a lot. And so what does that do? You know, the content creator, they've they've gotten investors, they've gotten people who have put money into this. And normally it used to be I mean, way back in the day, the only two options you had were theatrical reliant and its theatrical run and home movie. Yeah. You know he'd go it go to home video and if you could do both. Yeah. You were doing well. Yeah. Nowadays I even think about the, the avenues in which Appian Media distributes our content. We distribute it for free on YouTube, but we also distribute it with people like you where they can rent and or buy it and keep it forever. Yeah. But we also distribute it to places like right now media, which is more of a subscription service. You pay a monthly fee and you get access to their whole library. Yes, but we also still make DVDs. Yes. Yeah. What does that do for the content creator who's thinking which one do I go after? Yeah, how do I make how do I make a return on my investment? Yeah. Do I just tell him to talk to somebody like you? Yeah. Yeah, no. So. So you you got to think about this. You're your audience is a lot bigger than you think. And so you got to think about like people consume content in different ways, you know? So in an older audience, you know, probably, I don't know, I'll say 60 and above in, you know, there could be some that are still younger that prefer like DVD. And so, you know, we've seen DVD sales, you know, go down, but there's still a demand for DVDs. Yeah. And so people will buy those. So, you know, consider that, you know, you may not have to print 100,000 DVDs, but, you know, maybe print a couple of hundred or, you know, and then, you know, thinking about the the different platforms, you know, the platforms you go to are different, you know, because some platforms you get paid a royalty, you know, every time somebody watches your film or other platforms, you know, they're going to pay you upfront and then, you know, that's going to be done. So as a filmmaker, you just got to like, think about, like, your windows. Yeah. And how you release stuff and where. Yeah. And do your. Research. Yeah, and do your research and then also talk to other filmmakers who and ask them who or distributors that you've worked with and who do you recommend? Yeah, yeah. I find it an exciting time for us and the content that we produce because you know, our content, if all we had was the theatrical run, it clearly would not have been able to be seen by nearly as many people. Yeah, but because we know people like you and there are other people who are wanting to get this type of content in front of other people. Yeah. You know, you're, you're kind of blazing trails to make sure that the content creators can get into and get in front of, of those audiences. And so it's an exciting time at at times, though. It's a it's a confusing and frustrating time because once you think you've got this thing, figure it out. Yep. Then something happens like COVID and it changes everything. That's right. Yeah. And so how do you react? You've been in this long enough? Yeah. How do you react to those changing and shifting methods of distribution? Oh, yeah. So I guess, you know, you know, we've seen like in our case, like it was, it was a it was a benefit to us, right? Because more and more people are looking for, you know, video on demand. So we we saw that, you know, definitely increase. So now, you know, people are kind of, you know, going back to, you know, their I don't want to say their old ways, but get now, you know, maybe not in front of the TV as much, right? Then you just have to be like, okay, you know, you realize, okay, things they're not going to consume as much. So it's like you have to get, you know, you have to get newer stuff out there in front of them and just, you know, make sure that they're, you know, aware of like what? It's out there. Yeah. And so everybody's trying to buy be buying for somebody's attention. And it's so it's like you just got to figure out, like, okay, what's the best way to communicate that and how how do I get somebody that, you know, attention site. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard of a term similar to this we we use it quite a bit with Appian but digital evangelism. Yeah. That we're using media to evangelize. Yeah. Put forward the gospel. Yeah. And trying to get that into as many homes and as many avenues. Yeah. I can. I see that being what you all are doing. Yeah. Yes. Maybe there's this DVD player, you know, DVD player kind of a people. Yeah. And that's all they're ever going to do because they want that case full of DVDs. Yeah, we're going to make that available. Maybe they are streaming people and they do not feel comfortable going to theaters. We're going to make that available. But keeping in mind, how how do you keep in mind the objective of, yeah, you know, because you guys aren't just making movies available. No. Yeah. The specific kind. We were talking about this over lunch. Yeah, yeah. How do you how do you keep that objective? And yeah. So Christian Cinema is part of an organization called The Giving Company. And so we have other, you know, brands, you know, that are media based under that. And our mission for the Giving company is actually to give individuals simple moments with Jesus. And so we it's just really, you know, our DNA is like we want to find ways to give people moments with Jesus and whatever, whatever that would be through a piece of content or through a film or through a movie review or, you know, whatever it may be, that's, you know, that's really our goal. So for us, it's really top of mind to do that. And so, you know, we you kind of use that as a filter for everything we do. Yeah, yeah. What gets you excited when you think about the next ten years, trying to anticipate what it's all going to look like in ten years? What gets you excited? Well, I just think, like, you know, things are going to change, you know, the way films are probably distributed or how that looks. I mean, there's, you know, VR is is coming up or it's not coming up. It's already out there. It's like, okay, what's that going to look like? You know, do do we offer VR content? Let's see what else, you know, are theaters going to change? Is it just going to be like us? A small building, you know, with a few theaters and, you know, people are going to go see select movies or is it going to be, you know, or is it going to be like bigger and, you know, you're going to have it's going to be more experienced or experienced. And I can't say that word, but a bigger experience. Right. And so we're already seeing that, you know, you could go to a theater and have a meal or you can go to the theater and, you know, play video games. Right? Right. Well, you know, before you're watching your movie. Yeah, there's theater chains that do that. But anyway, that's that's kind of what we're kind of seeing is that, you know, things are kind of evolving and kind of they're adapting to like what people tastes and preferences are. So knowing the kind of content that you would like to see come to Christian cinema, yeah. Type of quality, not just in how it's produced, but what's being communicated. What would you say to up and coming filmmakers? What kind of advice would you give to them so that they can create the kind of meaningful content you all are looking for? Yeah, I think they just need to like really examine like, you know what, what is their motivation behind the stories they want to tell and so and not and not to compromise the message so. We have announced our next major project looking at the biblical lands of the exodus come along as Jeremy and our film crew travel to ancient Egyptian sites, take a four by four through the Sinai Peninsula and camp in the deserts of the Jordanian wilderness. In this incredible journey, the documentary is called Out of Egypt, and we're currently fundraising for this extraordinary project. And right now, if you go to fundraiser dot AP and media dot org, you can help support this project with a donation of any amount. Your donation will ensure that the AP and media team can make out of Egypt the best it can possibly be. We are a501 C3 and all donations are tax deductible. That's right. So pre-production has already started and we can't wait to share more about this journey with you. Please consider donating today to make out of Egypt a reality and thanks. So you are able to provide to us. Yeah. Analytics of what people are watching and what they're looking for on on Christian meet Christian cinema. Yeah. What kind of content art do you find people looking for? What are they clamoring for? More? Yeah, so I think people like Christian content that has a strong message to it. I mean, we see our are are titles that do the best are very, you know, very strong have strong biblical messages. You know, some of them are like, you know, biblical times stuff or, you know, or it's it's modern day narratives that, you know, tell a redemptive story, you know, and and do that. And we have family friendly content as well and, you know, people like that. But I think they're just looking for content that is either, you know, Christ focused or, you know, that is not going to be a offensive at all to, you know, to their family. Right? Yeah. Right. So if you're going to take the effort to appeal to a Christian audience. Yeah, you're not necessarily saying make a sermon, but you're saying make a story where the gospel isn't hidden underneath of all of the stuff. Yeah, gospel is front and center. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't have to necessarily, you know, have every moment say this is how, you know, lead somebody to the Lord, right? You know, you can have that represented in there. Yeah. But you can actually, you know, show characters that go through, you know, trials and issues and like, okay, what, how is that resolved? You know, like how you know what came out of that, you know, because, you know, life is not always simple. So. Right, I think you need to, you know, portray those as well. But at the same time, you don't have to like, you know, be gritty. You don't have to, like show everything on screen, right? Yeah. So we got the opportunity. They showed a prescreening of life. Mark, last night, the up and coming film from the Kendrick Brothers. Yeah. And one of the things I appreciated about that film and I didn't. I didn't actually even notice it until we were near the end. Mm hmm. God was throughout that whole message. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't necessarily as front and center as it has been in previous films. Yeah, there weren't, there wasn't necessarily a Come to Jesus kind of a scene. Yeah. But you know that he was through the whole story. But it struck me near the end there was kind of a montage and there was a Bible open and the family was praying to. Yeah, and it struck me that I hadn't actually seen a Bible or heard a reference to a Bible passage until that moment. Yeah, that's right. But the the father character that Kirk Cameron's character was clearly talking about, God threw out. Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts on on that approach? Yeah. So just because I know a little more context to the film, they were trying to be more true to like what actually happened because there is a video that you could watch on YouTube that, you know, portrays their whole story, you know, because I keep, oh, I'll leave it at that. I am not going to give away. Yeah. You must go to the theaters and watch it. Yeah, yeah. But they, you know, they basically tried to stay as true to the, the story and not add to it. So a lot of times when real life stories are told on screen, there's stuff that was added or they'll change it. They'll may be out of character to try to, you know, make it flow together. So in this case, it was like, you know, some of the dialog was exactly what they said. Which is fantastic. I think a lesson to me is we shouldn't have too many. You factor or artificially put Jesus into our films or into our experiences with other people. You should just be a part of who we are. Yeah. This natural, authentic, genuine thing. Yeah. That people can know it and see it and experience him. And we don't have to be like now we, we break for a message from Jesus. Yeah, yeah. That he should be a part of everything that we do. Yeah. And I love seeing films. I thought it was beautifully done. Oh, yeah. How authentic that was. Sure. Yeah. Without being maybe too abrupt. Which, which. Some films. Yeah. Yeah. I guess in closing, what kind of final advice would you give? Let's let's do it from this angle from parents who are trying to find content to show to their children or even people who are just trying to choose content to watch themselves. Yeah. Based on what you do and your experience with Christian cinema. Yeah. What kind of advice would you give for those? Yeah, I would say like you kind of like, you know, like what kind of content your you prefer, you know, what kind of films do your kids want to watch, what kind of films that you like to watch? You know, maybe when your kids have gone to bed. And so what's nice about like Christian cinema is you can go there and just search, you know, under categories, under types of films. And so that's what's nice. It's like we make it easy to find the stuff. Yeah. Or you could go out there to, you know, sites like Dove Dawg and look up movie reviews and a lot of the movies and find other films, you know, that are, you know, good for your family. Yeah. So that's that's the way to do it. Let's see what else I mean, there's other other resources out there. Yeah, but I think it just it's a matter of like, you know, what your preferences are, you know, what, what do you feel like? Watch it for the day and usually we have, you know, have something in, you know, any category from like action to comedy to, you know, documentaries, right? Like from Appian Way Weekly. So we love what you guys do. We so appreciate what you're doing. And thank you so much for for taking the time this after. Sure. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I really I really appreciated that that conversation with Doug. You did a great job, by the way. Well, thank you. Yeah. And I like talking to people. You like talking to people? That's right. You do it. Yeah. Christian cinema is a fascinating platform, and if you haven't used it before, you should check it out because it is it is kind of like a pay per view platform, you know, you can go on and find movies and documentaries are content's on there and you can pay to view it. And like, it's a great thing for a movie night on Friday nights and you know, but again, it's, it's there curating good Christian content, which I think is an awesome thing. And then Dub Dawg, which I wasn't as familiar with, you kind of showed me that. But basically, you know, they're trying to remake that platform into something that can be a tool for families with kids to decide, okay, we're going to watch this movie on Friday night. And here is a list of questions and discussions that we can have. And oh, by the way, here's a recipe that you can also make for that movie night. So it's almost like an an event. Yeah, they've got a lot going on and I am thrilled to see what they're doing. It should be noted. You know, I our viewers may be questioning why is AP and media is content on a platform that you pay for our content when our content for free. Oh yeah. And this is an is is a great question. Our philosophy with AP and media is we want our content to be where people are already gathering. So people gather on YouTube, we make it available on YouTube. People are on right now media, we make it available. And right now media people want to. And the difference between the content available at Christian cinema is you can rent it for sure. You rent it. And like most renting services, you've got that for a limited amount of time, but you can also purchase it and have it for keeps. And it's, it's part of your digital library that you can cultivate on Christian cinema, and you can watch that on, on apps, on televisions, and it prevents you from having to mess with pushing it to your screen or searching for it on YouTube. And I know I have episodes of TV shows and stuff that I just was like, this was such a good piece of content. Yes, I want to own it. I want to own it. And what that does is it. It lets the filmmakers know I liked that content. Please make more of that right. And so, you know, obviously we we get that, that revenue share and that's beneficial for us because it's one of the wells that we use to generate revenue to generate more content. And so we love what these guys are doing and they do such a great service for those of us who are looking for content that we know is safe and uplifting that we can watch with our families. Right. Distribution, it's important. Don't forget about it. Don't forget about it. So interesting, though, because I do this with my clients. You know, I still periodically make videos for other businesses and nonprofits and I harp on them with as far as like, look, you've got to know who your audience is and how they're going to get this video before we even talk about what the story is. Correct. And so, you know, the five steps of production are development, pre-production, production, post-production and distribute distribution. But you need to answer the distribution question before you do any of the rest of it, because too often they get the film in the can, maybe they're even in the middle of post-production, and they're going, So we going to put this on YouTube like, no, we'll just I guess we'll put it on our website. What does that mean? No, you need to know who's going to watch it and how they're going to watch it before you ever shoot a piece of film. Yeah, good advice. I've really enjoyed our time here at the Christian Worldview. Film has been it's just been such great conversations, great films. There's a lot of talent in this space and it's always encouraging to come and see all these filmmakers that are trying to do good in the world and use those talents for good. And it just it fills you up. It reminds us why we're doing what we're doing right. It reminds us how we should be doing what we're doing. Maybe gives us a nudge back in the right direction. And just the people around us who, you know, are just exuding talent, but they're not walking around making a big deal about it. They're walking around trying to spread and share that talent with others. So it's been a good time. Thank you guys for joining us on these episodes. They've been special for us. I hope they've been encouraging and uplifting to you. So we'll see you next time on the inRoads podcast. Throughout this season of inRoads will continue highlighting others that are using digital media to spread the good news of the gospel. And we'll also pull the curtain back on “Out of Egypt” and talk with various team members as we develop, fundraise and produce our most ambitious, challenging and rewarding project that we've ever done. That's next time on inRoads. inRoads is a production of Appian Media. We're a nonprofit video production company that is 100% crowdfunded. If you're interested in learning more about how you can support Appian Media so we can continue to create more great free content, visit us at appianmedia.org.